Cocktails on the Vegas Strip! Now Madre Mezcal offers a Gateway to a Better Taste
Today’s conversation is with Ryan Fleming from Madre Mezcal. The LA nightlife veteran reveals his time working behind the bar in some of Southern California’s hottest spots, as well as the inspiration that got him to travel to Mexico, discovering Mezcal.
The aroma, flavors, science and food pairings for Mezcal.
Love Tequila? Discover the Gateway to better taste with Madre Mezcal’s Ryan Fleming
This conversation has been edited for length and clarity. For the full, unedited conversation, visit our YouTube Channel.
“…I’ve been a big Mezcal lover before I ever sold it…”
Joe Winger: Can you share the behind the scenes or how the brand itself was created?
Ryan Fleming: I’ve been a big Mezcal lover before I ever even sold it or made a dollar doing that. So I got to actually meet Ron Cooper, who is the legend that started the Del Maguey label back in 2011.
I got to drink rabbit Pachuca with him and all these other amazing things. The reason I bring him up is he’s a kind of one of the people that we look up to, how to sustainably bring a brand and how to create culture that crosses boundaries in a sense.
He has a beautiful book that I recommend anyone to read if you haven’t read Ron Cooper’s book.
But we share a similar story. One of our founding partners, Tony Farfalla and one of my good friends, Stefan Tony’s an artist and he was literally traveling through Oaxaca doing documentaries and embracing the art and culture. He happened to meet Jose Morales, which is the first family we ever worked with.
If you have original bottles of Madre [Mezcal] before the labels have changed, it used to say Jose’s name on the bottle.
So Tony was bringing bottles back to Brooklyn in plastic water bottles and it snowballed. His friends in Brooklyn were like, this stuff’s great. Started out in plastic water bottles in 2014. I think it was 2016 when our first glass bottles actually came by and we became like of a more legit brand and company. But it started with Tony and Stefan; and they brought on our CEO and COO, Chris and Davide.
Chris actually is one of the founding driving forces in the electronic scene in the 90s in Europe. Chris comes from a very artistic, music based background. Then he went on to work for some bigger alcohol brands in the vodka world.
Davide, who is our COO, my direct boss, who I love, is Italian and his whole family built furniture and he got his big break by importing and bringing furniture over [to the United States]. He also works with a beautiful high end apparel line.
“…everyone has a very unique artistic background, which really reflects the brand and the label…”
So everyone has a very unique artistic background, which really reflects the brand and the label. Just not wanting to make a quick buck and actually make something we can stand behind and believe in.
As the families now blossom into four, we use three: the Vasquez family, the Blas family and the Morales family are our three main producers for our red and black label, which most people are familiar with.
We just brought in Moises and he’s actually from Santa Catarina Minas. That’s a little town where all they really make is their production. It’s a town known for nothing but clay pot distillation. So if you actually use a copper pot in, in Manera and Santa Caterina Minas, you’re looked at as what are you doing? That’s not what we do here.
He’s our last and newest producer and he may be the most cowboy of them all, and he’s my favorite.
When you get to Tlaxcala, you have to walk over like a little rope bridge over like a river and stuff into the hills of Minas to see his production, and he’s got his grandfather’s old still, and he’s got his mom’s little kitchen that he wants to reopen, and it’s like a restaurant. But if you and I were to look at it, it just looks like a backyard set of tables and chairs with a cooking center.
No, this is a restaurant for the village. It’s really beautiful down in Minas. I recommend everyone, if you get a chance to go down there, it felt like the jungles in Costa Rica, cause it’s up near the hills and it’s just so green and lush up there.
“…I’ve been working in the alcohol industry for almost 15 years …”
Joe Winger: What got you down there? Was it for a vacation or for Mezcal?
Ryan Fleming:
So I’ve been working in the alcohol industry for almost 15 years and I worked for the Houston Hospitality Group for over a decade, helping run programs and menus. I worked for a couple other restaurants, but I used to work for Stillhouse Whiskey, which many people remember the terrible flavored moonshine in a gas can.
Yeah I actually sold that. I did pretty well, there was always one flavor that someone loved. I had the mint chocolate chip and I would keep it in the freezer to take care of my sweet tooth when I didn’t have ice cream. So that’s how it started.
My buddy, Stefan, who’s one of the founding partners goes, “Hey, we got this Mezcal company.” I was just basically consulting for free lunches.
One day he goes, do you want to go to Oaxaca? And I went, absolutely.
I familiar with going down to Mexico city, but I’d never been as far South as Oaxaca. So I jumped at the chance.
[Meanwhile] we all got an email from Stillhouse saying “Hey, I know things are being shaken up right now, but trust me, everything’s fine. Don’t worry about it.”
That weekend, apparently the whole team got laid off, but I didn’t get the email untll I came home Monday. They’re saying, “Ryan, are you going to be okay? Do you need help finding work?”
So I went down to Oaxaca, met the families, broke bread with Jose Morales, got to meet his mother who blessed the roast and cooked us dinner. They offered me a job.
That was started my journey about six years ago with Madre [Mezcal ]and I’ve been with him since.
Fleming motions to tattoos on his arms and hands.
Discovering Madre Mezcal
I have it tattooed on my hand right here. I have it tattooed on my palm right here. And I think I have another one on the inside of my leg too. We do tasting events and we’ll have pop up tattoo artists all the time.
Tequila vs Madre Mezcal
Joe Winger:
You mentioned the tastings and the education. Are there quick lessons that you teach the most often?
Ryan Fleming:
Basic production, culture, financial, environmental and economic sustainability.
I don’t think people understand that Oaxaca is the second poorest state in Mexico. Everyone thinks the Mezcal boom must be bringing so many jobs, but it really only affects about 20 – 40,000 people that live in Oaxaca for the production,
Mezcal is great because it does bring some financial sustainability to the families. Jose started off driving a taxi to pay his bills and now he’s making Mezcal in his family’s tradition. His whole family, his cousin, his uncles, they all make Mezcal for a living now.
There’s so much culture behind it. Even the old argument of did the Spanish bring over copper stills and that started distillation or does it go back to the Aztecs and Mayans? Because they found distillate and pottery from 3000 years ago. It’s those little nuances.
People really like to talk about the environmental, but giving back to the people down there by not just buying product, but giving them some ownership, which Madre does do, so that everyone has a little bit of skin in the game.
So I think Sustainability, whether it’s environmental, economical, cultural, and production. Those are the things I really like to talk about.
Joe Winger: What is the basic difference between mezcal and tequila? Or is it more complicated?
Ryan Fleming:
You could say production techniques, additives, mass production are probably the three biggest differences.
Tequila can only be made with one agave. It’s a blue weber. Mezcal can be made with the other 47-ish varietals, and that number is always fluctuating, based on classification and family genius.
Production is the big one. Tequila is made in massive factories and made with either chemicals or steam for the most part.
Whereas mezcal is actually made by hand, roasted in an earthen oven. The biggest thing that separates Tequila and Mezcal is the 1% additive rule.
Tequila can have up to 1% by volume additives, and they don’t have to tell you. That’s why certain large brands will say 100% Agave, but it’s full of additives, because it doesn’t take much with modern chemistry. Just a couple drops of glycerin or vanilla extract to change the flavor and hide all the nuances.
Mezcal can’t have any additives by law.
Joe Winger: Can we walk through the roles and responsibilities between the families that produce Madre Mezcal?
Ryan Fleming:
Yeah, the four families. Let’s start with Jose Morales. Him and his brother both make mezcal. Now they produce for us in the US exclusively. We encourage all of our families to continue making mezcal to trade. They use it for a local economy.
Every time I go down there, [their operation is growing]. When they started, they had three stills. Now there’s 12 up and running and they have solar power. It’s just so crazy to see how much the transformation has happened.
The original recipe, the blend of cuishe and espadine at 90 proof, that’s his family’s recipe. So we expanded that and we brought on Carlos Blas and the Vasquez family. Unfortunately, Natalio the father passed away a couple of years ago.
His daughters are now producing in the family’s tradition and we take whatever we can from them.
But what we do, that’s a little bit different is, we started out when it was just Jose, he was making the blend himself. Now we have them make the espadine and the cuishe separately.
All three families are part of the process. Sometimes we just get cuiche from Jose. Sometimes Carlos makes all the espadine, but Carlos is like a master blender.
We blend a cold style like Scotch does. Even though it’s not the most traditional way, all the distillation and process is as true as it can be.
But by blending post distillation allows us to keep consistency, which was a huge problem because every batch with your wild fermentation, your wild yeast and all these beautiful nuances, it’ll be inconsistent as you grow as a brand. It was hard for us to keep consistency.
But by blending multiple terroirs and three different families’ production, we can keep a consistent product that tastes the same as well as expanding and bringing on more families to help instead of just going to a large factory house and not making what I would call “traditional Mezcal.”
Joe Winger: So focusing on your background, you mentioned that you’ve been a bartender in the LA nightlife. Any memorable adventures or lessons you can share?
Ryan Fleming:
There are some stories I could tell that I probably don’t want to share publicly. But there are some amazing stories I can tell.
One of the oddest experiences I’ve ever had, I worked at Good Times at Davey Wayne’s, which is one of the most famous bars in the Hollywood nightlife in the past decade.
Paul McCartney showed up at our door.
But because our staff is younger and our door guys are a little bit younger, they thought it was an old weird British man that just showed up and they turned Paul McCartney away from the door.
‘Holy crap, is that Paul McCartney’?
He was like, do you know who I am? The guys [were like] ”We don’t care.” Like straight up, blowing Paul McCartney off. One of our managers came out and was like, ‘Holy crap, is that Paul McCartney’? And they’re like, wait, the guy from the Beatles?!
My manager ran out, “Please come back,” and Paul had a great time at the bar. We got him a special little area to sit down. It was a packed Saturday. It’s not a nightclub where we have gated off [areas]. Even if you reserve a table, people are inches away from you where you’re sitting at your table.
Justin Bieber showed up one time and everyone went nuts. He comes in, walks around, does a loop, comes out and goes, “I thought this was a hip hop club.” and just left.
It was a 1970s themed bar and we played nothing but 70s music.
The dichotomy between the two different generations and to see them all melt into one location was one of the coolest things about working at that bar.
Joe Winger:It’s so crowded because it’s so popular. The Houston Brothers always do such a good job.
Ryan Fleming:
Yeah. The cocktails are still really good too. For as much volume as we used to do there, the biggest thing is how can I make a really beautiful cocktail that’s still cost effective and doesn’t take 12 steps. We got really good at batching stuff and figuring out how to infuse things. Luckily our back of house was just the most amazing. Mariano is the best barback I’ve ever had in my whole life. He’s still there.
He is just a workhorse that got all the infusions. He would cook, he would infuse all of our products and he was just great. Even if we just did a jalapeno infusion on our tequila, if it got too spicy, he could break down the ratio and water it down with more products so that we could keep the spice level approachable.
Joe Winger:
What is the secret to high quantity yet high value cocktails?
Ryan Fleming:
Batching is definitely the way to do it. Any of your alcohols that are shelf stable, you want to put all of those in the proper ratios in a bottle.
Instead of grabbing a modifier and your base spirit and another modifier, you’re grabbing one bottle with a special tape at the bottom, so you know which cocktail it goes to and then all your fresh stuff.
You can’t batch the fresh stuff. It has to be separated because you put citrus in something and it goes bad in three days. Now the whole batch is bad. So keeping your fresh stuff separated.
Joe Winger: Back to Madre Mezcal. Obviously the bottles themselves are where all the power is. So let’s talk about labels and taste profiles.
Ryan Fleming:
People love our labels. Our branding is top notch. It’s one of the first compliments we always get. “Oh my God, I love your branding.”
Madre Mezcal Artesanal
Looked at Oaxacan culture and some other like medieval culture and combined the art from the two.
As far as the red label it’s the woman on the bull. It’s a really beautiful message of Mother Earth coming down and starting to share humanity and move across the world to plants and spread love. That’s why she’s on the bull. It’s the combination of animal, Mother Earth, and humans.
Madre Mezcal Espandin
The black label is a beautiful logo of a woman on the ground. She’s planting and spreading the seed of life that gives us agave and flowers and fruit and vegetables and everything else.
Madre Mezcal Ancestral
The ancestral is this beautiful clay bottle with old clay vessels from Greece that carried wine with the fluid coming out and it’s supposed to celebrate the ancestral way of making mezcal and clay pots and clay distillation.
I always love telling the story of people who say mezcal is not supposed to be aged, which is a true-ish statement in my opinion. But back in the day, everything got transferred in barrels. So Mezcal would accidentally get aged in barrels because it would travel from town to town on horseback after the product was made.
So the idea that Mezcal was never aged is it wasn’t aged on purpose.
Mezcal was accidentally aged in wood. The traditional way that people would age Mezcal is in glass and they would hide it underground.
I always tell people, if you have a beautiful bottle of Mezcal, you should open it and take it out and put a wine cork in it, or at least crack the bottle and get some air because it really lets alcohol open up and aerate.
Mezcal benefits from a resting period. Pouring it in a nice open glass, like a snifter or a wine glass, letting it sit for about 5-10 minutes will really open it up.
Madre Mezcal tasting notes
Madre is designed to be less smoky. I really hate the term smoky. I like the word roasted because what you’re tasting is like barbeque.
You’re tasting the roasting of the agave and the charcoaling and the burning of the outside agave which will affect the sugars, the caramelization.
Madre really was designed to be a more approachable mezcal. We call ourselves ”The gateway to the category.”
We want to bring people from tequila over to Mezcal so you can explore what agave spirits also have to offer.
It’s bright, clean, and smooth. I always compare it to a really nice, made tequila.
Our Espadine is actually a close cousin of [tequila’s] Blue Weber. It tastes really bright, clean and smooth. But you’re going to get some of that minerality and smoke in the end.
Like easy drinking with some earthy aromas.
Joe Winger: That night when I met you, what you handed me was my first taste of the night. I love that it was so pure and smooth. It didn’t clog up my mouth for the rest of the night.
Ryan Fleming:
I’m like you. I want to have 2-3 cocktails a night. Not just one and my palette’s done.
Our Espadine to me is a 2-3 second palette. It clears up and you get like a breath and it’s fading. Our Ensemble goes on for 10- 12 seconds. From sweet vanilla to chocolate to mineral and then to smoke. Then the smoke fades and you get just a really beautiful, crisp. It’s viscous. You can feel the oil in your mouth when you swirl it around and it makes the best Negroni.
Joe Winger: Let’s talk about food pairings.
Ryan Fleming:
I want to know if this caught you off guard, but it’s Italian food.
Very rich foods. These beautiful Mezcals are light and almost floral and fragrant, It cuts through the richness and creaminess of food.
That’s why mezcal and chocolate are consistently paired together, but that was just way too easy. There’s always mezcal chocolate pairings, but like a really nice Italian dish, something creamy and rich, like an Alfredo or a really well done piece of pizza, like a margarita or a white sauce pizza.
“…I want to know if this caught you off guard, but…”
We are working on doing some [pizza] pairings with some places in LA. Do a different slice of pizza with three different cocktails of Madre and then have a tasting at the end.
Chocolate has a big part of Oaxaca too. You can’t not have some chocolate and mezcal at the end of the night.
Espresso martinis are so hot again right now. Try making one with mezcal instead of vodka and just [see] how coffee helps open up the agave and the notes, and you’re going to get so much more going on in your cocktail.
If you pair a nice espresso martini with beautiful, dark chocolate from Oaxaca. That is your final cocktail at the end of the night, it won’t let you down.
Joe Winger: You mentioned replacing Mezcal with vodka in a martini, are there any traditional or more common cocktails we should also try replacing Mezcal in?
Ryan Fleming:
When I tell you this, it may blow your mind. Most gin cocktails are a little bit better with Mezcal.
There are certain times you need botanicals, but a lot of really good classic gin cocktails, if you sub them for Mezcal, are absolutely fantastic.
Joe Winger: I’m shocked because most gins have such unique aromatics.
Ryan Fleming:
Which Mezcal has so many of those same unique terpenes going on that it changes the cocktail, but it works.
So instead of having botanicals, you have all these beautiful vegetal and mineral notes that just come from agaves.
Joe Winger: What are the biggest misconceptions in the world of Mezcal?
Ryan Fleming:
A lot of people have a misconception, especially on the trade side, that we have grown exponentially. It’s been a lot of hard work. People think we have this massive team behind us. There’s less than 20 of us on the whole team. That includes our team down in Oaxaca, who watches over manufacturing and production for us down there.
We don’t have an office. We have a little tiny apartment in Venice for meetings.
A lot of people don’t understand the hard work that goes into creating a small brand. It’s just a lot of people working hard to create beautiful Mezcal, especially the families.
People [unfairly comparing it to] tequila. What do you mean, we can’t get more? Why is it so expensive? We have people going out hand collecting wild agaves and harvesting espadine. All of that is hand cut, hand chopped. I’ve hand cut agaves with the families.
None of this is industrialized or mechanized like tequila.
Appreciate every drop of mezcal you have, because someone put a lot of love and labor into it.
Joe Winger: Ryan, as we wrap up, let’s talk about where can learn more about Madre Mezcal?
Ryan Fleming:
We have a beautiful Instagram. Madremezcal.com is our website.
We also have this Instagram called mezcal. Learning and it’s a little short videos and little blurbs to talk about production, families, history, and culture. It is focused on Madre, but it’s not just Madre, it’s Mezcal as a whole.
If you want to know more about our families who produce, where it’s made, you can find all that information on madremezgal. com.
Our bottles are in most of your nicer bottle shops, liquor stores. In California, we’re lucky enough to be in Trader Joe’s for the Espadine and Whole Foods has our Ensemble.
If you can’t find it, go to madremezcal.com and we ship bottles to almost every state in the U S.
We’re in nine countries, too. Australia. All over Europe, Costa Rica. We’re working on Japan and South Korea as well. So I’m just excited to see the culture of mezcal just expand beyond just America and see how excited because I, when I talk to people that are in London or, people in Australia, and they’re so excited about the idea of being able to get mezcal.
Joe Winger: What is the future for Madre?
Ryan Fleming: I can’t tell you about the big one.
But, [exciting things for] our Ancestral, which is pretty new and every batch of that’s going to be hand numbered and labeled.
We’re going to start doing small batch productions that will be very limited. Then the desert waters, which we have ready for summer.
To learn more about MadreMezcal, visit MadreMezcal.com. Find them on Instagram at MadreMezcal
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By @BrandiMilloy
Ingredients
1 loaf St. Pierre Brioche Bread
1/2 cup unsalted butter
1 medium onion, diced
3/4 cup celery, diced
3/4 cup carrots, diced
1 cup mushrooms, diced
2 large eggs
1 tbsp. fresh rosemary, chopped
3 sprigs fresh thyme, just the leaves
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1 small apple (granny smith works well), peeled and diced
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Preheat oven to 350 F. Cut brioche bread into 1” cubes and bake for about 10-15 minutes until toasted.
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Meanwhile, into a pot over medium high heat add butter until melted. Add onion, celery and carrots and cook until everything starts to soften, about 7 minutes. Add mushrooms and cook for 2 minutes longer. Remove from heat and set aside.
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Into a bowl whisk together the eggs, herbs, apples, mushrooms, and salt and pepper. Add your cooked vegetables and mix to combine.
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Pour mixture on top of toasted bread and stir to combine. Bake stuffing for about 45 minutes. If your stuffing starts to get too brown, cover until finished baking. Enjoy!
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Vegas Crowds Find New Flavor with Dancing Wines from Cynthia Russell, Lauren Russell
Vegas Crowds Searching for New Flavor Find it with Dancing Wines from Cynthia Russell, Lauren Russell in Dry Creek Valley, Sonoma County.
The team at Dancing Wines is developing a collection of sensory brands that celebrate life through taste, touch and aroma – inspiring you to find your inner dance and show the world what truly moves you.
Dancing Wines’ red wine trio includes Old Vine, Duo and Estate — three limited-release wines made from hand-picked grapes that showcase the full breadth of the Dancing estate.
Lauren Russell (L) and Cynthia Russell (R) from Dancing Wines Credit: https://instagram.com/DancingSonoma
Today’s conversation with the dynamic Mother / Daughter team Cynthia and Lauren Russell from Dancing Wines ha been edited for length and clarity.
For the full, un-edited conversation, visit our YouTube channel here.
Joe Winger: What is the most important message you’d like to share today?
Lauren Russell: I think one of them is dancing is art and art is life.
Another is love needs no explanation. I think really the thread between those is we’re trying to create a product and an experience that brings people together and invites them to find their inner dance, which is something we say a lot.
So we want to encourage people to find their unique rhythms. And wine is also really lovely because it is a vehicle that brings people together to enjoy a moment and diverse people together.
I think my Mom [Cynthia] can speak to this as well, but one of the things we thought about when first exploring wine was just how daunting the whole atmosphere is around the consumption of it and the buying and using all the right adjectives.
Especially for my generation I feel like there’s a bit of a learning curve. So I think one thing we really want people to take away from the brand is just like, just enjoy it. Love needs no explanation and you can’t drink wine when your mouth is full of adjectives. We’ve created a great wine just for you to be able to enjoy and to describe however you want and enjoy whenever you want.
Source: WeAreDancing.com
Cynthia: Yeah, I think the measures we created we have a beautiful heritage property that the soil and the climate create this great wine. And me being of an older generation where wine was very intimidating, even though I know a lot about it.
And drinking it for a very long time. I’ve lived in France. I’ve lived in California. It’s still when you order in a restaurant, you’re scared. Do I know enough? I’m going to be embarrassed. Is this the right pairing? And what the good news is that wine making in the world has become so sophisticated that if you are buying wine from a place that is special, including all.
Sonoma or France or Italy, the wines are good, they’re really good and all you have to do is be comfortable with yourself and enjoying it. And so that’s what we’re trying to do is take a product that has thousands of years of history as being a part of our culture and make you comfortable with just having fun, enjoying it and celebrating what wine can do to bring people together.
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Joe Winger: You have a really unique story that you restored a vineyard up in Dry Creek. Can you talk about experience and what you learned from the restoration?
Cynthia: We lucked out. It was a Covid purchase. We spent a lot of time as a family together in very small confined spaces drinking a lot of wine.
We [thought we] might end up needing a place where we have more outdoor space and can be together. So we bought this property more as a farm and then discovered that it was a unique part of the world.
Zinfandel grapes have been growing in this small region for over 150 years.
It was called America’s grape back in the time I think [the] 1850s. Okay, we have these vineyards. They’re really old.
There was one owner at this property for 60 years, an older Italian gentleman. And a lot of the area is multi generation, fourth generation Italian families who came over and cultivated this grape.
We never intended to make wine and yet we were scared to let this history and heritage die.
So we took classes and tried to figure out, can we make wine?
It’d be such a shame to let this history go in this special place.
We made a great discovery, which was that you don’t have to be an expert on wine. You just have to have great soil and a great climate.
Then we launched from there.
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Lauren: We’re always towing the line between the respective tradition and traditional winemaking and the land and all of the old vines and creating something new.
She [Mom, Cynthia] always brings a lens of respect for the older generation and ways of life and what wine has meant to her throughout her life.
I’m always pushing the other direction. We always land somewhere in the middle.
You’ll see that in the brands, it has really playful branding and packaging. But, our winemaking is a bit more traditional. We’re a sustainable vineyard but we have old vines and we respect what the land has to offer and what it’s been offering in that region for a long time.
It creates a better product and brand for us because we get to cater to both audiences.
Credit: https://instagram.com/DancingSonoma
Joe Winger: You have a collection of sensory brands. Can you talk about what that collection is, what inspired the idea, and what we should be looking for?
Lauren: All of the products have been and will be inspired by the backdrop of the vineyard.
When we talk about wine, we talk about this kind of multi sensory experience, whether that’s aroma or where you’re having it, who you’re enjoying it with.
We came into wine knowing that it was going to be not just about taste or smell, but about the holistic experience of what wine could do for someone.
Sort of the thread between all of our products are taste, touch and smell. Again, like finding your inner dance and allowing you to express your personality.
We’re launching a trio of fragrances, which are loosely inspired by the terroir and the vineyard.
Cynthia: We have a fresh perspective on Sonoma. Every time we arrive, we have this nose full of these incredible senses:, the smell of moss, crushed grapes, barrel, fire and oak.
Yeah. So we’re like, wow. Every time we arrive, we’re like, wow, this is really cool.
This is so distinct and unique and just elevates your experience of being there.
We are going to bring more experiences to the brand when we can, like having an artist in residence, creating visually beautiful contributions.
We have an art collection there that inspired us to bring art to the brand. It’s largely from a diverse group of artists from the West Coast who are very colorful and young and also push boundaries. So our idea with the senses is like we’re trying to This is a brand that you enter into our world and you get to experience people and life in a way that’s very unique and bold and
Credit: https://instagram.com/DancingSonoma
Joe Winger: What are both of your backgrounds outside of wine?
Lauren: I was raised in Connecticut and went to Dartmouth for undergrad, was a creative non-fiction writer, so always had that storytelling bent.
After school, I worked at a lot of businesses in marketing. Uber Eats, Refinery29, right before the pandemic, I worked for AB and Bev that was my first kind of foray into alcohol.
Then during COVID, I got my MBA at Columbia. We all got this massive reset of our priorities. I come from an entrepreneurial family. This opportunity arose
Cynthia: We’re a family who really believes in experiences. I have dabbled in many different areas. I went to Scripps college. I actually was a dance major until I was not. I became an international relations major. I lived in France for a while. Then moved to New York City and worked for JP Morgan trading stock, money market securities.
I didn’t find that was my passion, so I went to Harvard Business School and I got a master’s in business. Then I worked for American Express where I started a weekend travel program. It was a little startup within the travel segment of American Express. I got my “sea legs” of starting a business.
I quit that business because I had kids, then I started my own mail order company then I decided again, that maybe I needed a little more education.
I went back and got a doctorate at Columbia in organizational leadership.
I have a consulting firm on the side where I consult leaders and organizations about how to handle complex challenges in a complex world.
So my daughter [Lauren] gets through business school and we decide to marry all these wonderful experiences together and create something really new and unique.
Credit: https://instagram.com/DancingSonoma
Joe Winger: Let’s talk about your wines.
Lauren: We launched with our rosé which is really beautiful. It’s an intentional rosé. From our Primitivo grapes and we harvested them early and intentionally for rosé.
It has this really beautiful distinct, watermelon, almost Jolly Rancher aroma, and it’s really playful and full, but also dry. And it’s been a really big hit so that was a fun debut for us.
We just launched our trio of reds, and what makes them unique goes into the story about the restoration of the vineyard.
We’re still learning our land and learning from it.
We chose to harvest from different blocks and treat the wines in a similar fashion and bottle them separately to see what personalities they expressed.
One is the Old Vine Zinfandel, which is from our oldest head trained vines which is the deepest, moodiest, richest wine. It’s really lovely.
Credit: https://instagram.com/DancingSonoma
Then we have an estate wine, which is actually from Primitivo, a different word for Zinfandel. That one is a bit lighter.
Then we have a third, a duo which is a blend of both. And so it’s really helped us to understand. And they are quite different.
They’re obviously all Zinfandels in their expressions, but they’re all quite different.
People say Zinfandel is like a map of the land and I think that’s really true here. Which is super cool.
But we have two forthcoming sparkling wines because I think it really speaks to our ethos about being playful and to my generation.
Cynthia: It’s really fun for us because being on the East coast, Zinfandel is a really unknown varietal and we think it’s underrated. Californians know it’s been around for a long time. It has a lot of possibilities with food. And so what we’re trying to do is bring to light this really good wine and do it in a slightly different way.
We pick ours earlier, trying to have it be less jammy, juicy, heavy; lighter, less alcoholic than some of the more traditional Zinfandels that are on our street.
That’s really trying to address the changes consumer changes.
Our wines are chillable, super easy to eat with most any food, especially ethnic food, spicy food.
2022 was our first vintage. 2023 is already in barrels and we’ll be bottling that in probably in March. But it’s going to be a little different because the climate was different that year.
The rosé was just a fluke. Our winemaker wanted to try a Zinfandel rosé. Most people love it. It’s so distinct and unique.
Our 24 Rosé will come out in March. The reds will come out in the early summer. We’re going to bottle the sparkling in January, but that will be at least a year until you’ll see that. The pétillant naturel will probably be launching at about the same time as the rosé
Credit: https://instagram.com/DancingSonoma
Lauren: What’s fun about having both an early release sparkling and a [second, additional] later release [sparkling wine] one is going to be lighter, more effervescent, maybe geared towards the younger generation and the other will have that toastier champagne flavor.
Joe Winger: Do you have a favorite wine and food pairing?
Lauren: This one’s so hard. Rosé and oysters or any seafood is just awesome. Sparkling wine and a burger is one of my favorites.
In terms of red, when I think of Zinfandel, it’s Thanksgiving foods. It speaks to the hominess in our story. Bringing everyone around the table. Kind of experiential pairing.
Cynthia: Yeah, that resonates with me.
We have a lot of ethnic food, so it holds up really well to spice, to sweet and sour, salty and sweet. So it’s great with Indian food, Mexican food. Apples in your pork chops.
A burgundy is usually killed instantly by those kinds of flavors. It’s too fragile.
[Ours] is not fragile, but it still has so many nice aromas and flavors to enhance whatever you’re eating.
Lauren: It’s great with pizza. Pizza and a nice glass of Zinfandel
Source: WeAreDancing.com
Joe Winger: What’s something magical about Sonoma that you learned through this journey?
Lauren: True of both Zinfandel and Sonoma it always has this underdog energy to Napa. One of the hidden gems, we wake up really early and drive to the Redwood forest to watch the sun rise through the trees.
We eat a burrito because we have terrible burritos in New York.
There’s an amazing food community, 3 Michelin star restaurant, chefs, farm to table.
Cynthia: The distinct part of Sonoma is how important nature is to everyone there. It’s not just about wine. It’s incredible nature.
We both traveled a lot, lived in a lot of places. I’ve never seen such natural beauty in such a small area.
Lauren: That’s what the idea of our products is too. We have to bring people here in some way, differently than just having them taste the wine.
So as many dimensions as we can bring people into that realm to experience [00:29:00] that it’s like definitely the dream.
Joe Winger: Whether it’s social media, website, or other ways, what are the best ways for our audience to find and follow Dancing Wine?
Lauren: We have our website, which is wearedancing.com. We also are on Instagram, which is at DancingSonoma.
American Film Market 2024 in Vegas: AGC’s Stuart Ford & Anton’s Sébastien Raybaud to Take Stage
American Film Market 2024 in Vegas: AGC’s Stuart Ford & Anton’s Sébastien Raybaud to Take Stage
- Matt Brodlie, Upgrade Productions
- Katie Irwin, WME Independent
- Matt Mueller, Screen International
- Peter Van Steemburg, XYZ Films
- Miranda Bailey, Cold Iron Pictures
- Karin Chien, dGenerate Films, Art & Action Productions
- Phil Goldfine, Producer
- Michele Kanan, Producer, Writer and Director
- Michael Musante, Cherokee Film
- Mary Aloe, Aloe Entertainment / Partners in Kind
- Josh Harris, Peachtree Media
- Jonathon Glucksman, Wondermind
- Robert Rippberger, SIE Society
- Jarnell Stokes, Stoked Bros. Media
- Olga Rodriguez-Aguirre, SAG-AFTRA
November 7
- Jill Goldsmith, Deadline
- Jon Gosier, Film Hedge
- George Hamilton, Protagonist Pictures
- Paula Paizes, Pressman Films
- Miguel Palos, AGC Studio
- Gregory Chambet, WTFILMS
- Emily Gotto, Shudder
- Tom Malloy, Glass House Distribution
- Bob Portal, AMP
- Priscilla Ross Smith, The Coven
- Ryan Broussard, Wrapbook
- Jeffery Greenstein, A Higher Standard
- Andi Isaacs, University of Nevada-Las Vegas, Formerly Summit Entertainment
- Simon Williams, Palisades Park Pictures
- Kyle Bowser, NAACP Hollywood Bureau
- Monica Kelly, CSA, Treadwell / Kelly Casting
- Jennifer K.M. Treadwell, CSA, Treadwell / Kelly Casting
- Clay Epstein, Film Mode Entertainment
- Tiffany Boyle, Ramo Law PC
- Mimi Steinbauer, Radiant Films International
- Brian O’Shea, The Exchange
- Cassian Elwes, Elevated
- Lee Jessup, leejessup.com
- Lorelle Lynch, AGC Studios
- Chris McGurk, Cineverse
- Lauren McCarthy, Cineverse
- Thomas K Arnold, Media Play News
- Paul Bales, The Asylum
- Jeff Deverett, Producer
- Efuru Flowers, Flourishing Films
- Chris Gore, Film Threat
- Max Woertendyke, Noble Gas Media
IFTA is the global trade association for independent film and television production, finance, distribution, and sales companies. The organization represents the independent sector before governments and international bodies and provides significant entertainment industry services to independent companies around the world.
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Bourbon-lover Ultimate Weekend Trip? Fredericksburg Virginia Bed & Breakfast with a Twist, Owen King from Ironclad Distillery shares Delicious Details
Love Tasting Bourbons? This Fredericksburg Virginia Bed & Breakfast Might Be Your Dream Visit, Owen King from Ironclad Distillery shares Delicious Details
Ironclad Inn is the first B & B & B – Bed & Breakfast & Bourbon Tasting Room.
Ironclad Inn is the first B & B & B – Bed & Breakfast & Bourbon Tasting Room
Today’s conversation with Distiller Owen King from Ironclad Distillery has been edited for length and clarity. For the full, un-edited conversation, visit our YouTube channel here.
Owen King, Ironclad Distillery
Joe Winger:
A lot of really cool things are happening right now. I want to jump into your tasting room, the distillery, we’ll get into bourbon tastings in a few minutes.
But first and foremost, what’s the most important thing with Ironclad right now for you?
Owen King:
The most important thing about Ironclad for me right now is the same thing it’s always been, trying to make the best bourbon we can.
The other thing is spreading the word about our bed and breakfast; and bourbon. It’s a bed and breakfast in Fredericksburg that when you’re there, you can drink bourbon.
Ironclad’s famous Old Fashioned cocktail
We make a lot of old fashions there and we always have all these leftover oranges. Now the perfect thing is in the morning you have fresh squeezed orange juice from our [leftover] old fashions.
It’s really working double duty now.
Besides that I just love the fact that we can now expand our distillery up to Fredericksburg. So we can have more people try our bourbon and enjoy our bourbon, which is the goal.
Joe Winger:
Getting to know you before you jump into Ironclad, I want to use the word “were”, you were a football player and cooking changed your life.
Tell us more about your cooking. Was there a special dish that enhanced your life?
Owen King:
I’m Italian. So obviously with the Italian genes, we share our love through food. Growing up I cooked a lot.
When I went to college [I cooked] for my teammates. I’d make dinner for everyone. So when we decided to open the bourbon distillery, I figured, I know how to cook. I think I could probably figure out how to make bourbon.
I know flavors. I know how things go well together. I think I have a pretty decent palette.
So putting all those things together to make a great bourbon was the goal.
Food is one of those things where you never stop improving. I feel the same about bourbon.
FlavRReport.com on YouTube
Joe Winger:
Is there a favorite dish?
Owen King:
Breaded chicken cutlets and spaghetti.
That is how it started. Then I was like “I really like cheese.” Maybe I could put cheese in with the breadcrumbs and then do that. Then I started expanding. Chicken Parm. Making my own sauce. Thinking I could add something here to make that better.
It’s the same way I look at bourbon.
Thinking, “I like what this person’s doing. Let me see what they’re doing. I can build off that to make it work on my own.”
Creating my own recipes, going from there, just continually tweaking little things here and there.
We’ll make a 5% difference, maybe a 10% difference.
Joe Winger:
Ironclad Distillery is in Newport News, Virginia. The bed and breakfast Ironclad Inn is in Fredericksburg, Virginia.
For most people when we think of bourbon, we don’t always think of Virginia as the first choice. What would surprise us most about coming down to Virginia for a bourbon tasting and staying the night?
Ironclad Distillery
Owen King:
If you’re coming down to Virginia, you have to remember Virginia is the birthplace of American spirits. The first place spirits were made in the new colonies, in the new world, was here in Virginia.
The first corn liquor which would eventually become bourbon, was made in Virginia.
You can also talk about Elijah Craig, who was from Fairfax County, Virginia, before he moved out to Kentucky.
On top of that, Kentucky wasn’t a state until 1793. Evan Williams was doing distillation in 1783, and at that point Kentucky was still Virginia.
The birthplace of bourbon is right here in Virginia.
I’ve been to Kentucky a lot. They talk about the birthplace of bourbon being there in Kentucky.
Maybe the territory it’s in was Kentucky, but it was still Virginia at the time.
Whenever someone comes by, I can tell them the history of actual bourbon, where you’re gonna get the whole story, not just the fantasized story that you get in Kentucky.
Joe Winger:
I’m incredibly glad you just shared that.
Let’s talk about The Ironclad Bed and Breakfast now. The bourbon tasting room, the event space.
Owen King:
We wanted to spread our bourbon out around the state. We’ve always really liked Fredericksburg. It’s a beautiful town. It’s got a ton of history to it.
Nothing goes better with bourbon than a good story.
So we can always tell our history while drinking. So with our bed and breakfast, we looked at what the bigger guys were doing. A lot of them were starting to have these places where you could stay [the night] and get an experience to go along with it.
We really wanted to spread our Ironclad experience.
We have a tasting room. It’s beautifully decorated by my sister. We’ve got a bottle shop where you can pick up pretty much every one of our bourbons that are available. We’ve got a bar so you can try it from our seasonal cocktail menus where we change it five times a year.
We have a winter, a fall, a spring, summer [menu].Then a holiday menu as well.
No matter what time of year you’re there, you’re trying something that’s going to go well seasonally.
Everyone likes seasonal drinks. You don’t want to drink in the fall, what you’d drink in the summer.
We always have an old fashioned and it’s a damn good old fashioned.
Then we also have an event space. We have weddings. We’ve had 50th birthday parties.
Ironclad Inn wedding and special events
We’ve had any event that you want to tie into with our bourbon or just if you want a beautiful event space in a building that was built in 1793 we have that as a great option.
It’s a really cool spot that you can go and see and experience.
It’s something we want to share, our love for bourbon with everyone.
Whether you’re here in Newport News or in Fredericksburg, you’ll get a King family member there to tell you our story and tell you all about our bourbon and show you around.
Ironclad Bottled-in-Bond Straight Bourbon Whiskey
Joe Winger:
Outstanding. Let’s get to the tasty part now. You have several amazing bottles. When someone comes to your tasting room this weekend, what should they be looking forward to?
Owen King:
We do a few bottle releases that are once a year for us. One of my favorites.
A five year, three barrel blend of three 30 gallon barrels. Bottle of Bond.
The history alone is one of my favorite things to talk about. In 1897 the federal government stepped in because there was people dying from drinking bad whiskey.
They stepped in to “certify” everything in there.
“If you bottle it at four years old and at 100 proof, we will claim that this is a bottle and bond bourbon certified” by the federal government that it is safe to drink.
That story alone is one of my favorites of bourbon lore.
We just want to make sure that we do that every year that we can.
It’s absolutely one of my favorite bourbons. It’s our four grain mash bill. 70% corn 10% wheat, 10% rye, 10% malted barley.
So with the corn and the wheat, it adds a nice sweetness to it. But then the rye is there to kind of balance that whole thing out. Before it gets [to be] a very sweet bourbon, it balances out, a little baking spice, maybe even some clove, maybe a little black pepper.
It balances it out to be a nice, rounded bourbon.
Ironclad Sweeter Creations Maple Syrup Cask
Joe Winger:
Let’s move on to your Maple Syrup Cask.
Owen King:
Absolutely delicious. But this is a cast finish, not a flavored bourbon. So we’re not adding maple syrup to it. People who drink it might think it’s going to be super sweet and not going to like it. Because they don’t like maple syrup.
This is my version of drinking maple syrup responsibly and not getting diabetes.
After we empty our barrels, we give them to a maple syrup producer in upstate New York. He’ll age his maple syrup using our bourbon barrels.
By doing that through transference, there’s about a gallon of bourbon stuck in the staves of the wood. So when he puts a new liquid in there, that maple syrup is going to absorb into the wood and that bourbon is going to come back out.
Now his maple syrup is picking up that beautiful bourbon flavor and we are picking up all that maple syrup flavor into the wood.
When he brings those barrels back down to us, we put our aged bourbon back in there and we let him finish in there for about three to six months.
After we take the bourbon out, it’s now got this beautiful, mild sweetness, but it’s got that hint of maple syrup at the end.
I always say, I don’t want it to be maple syrup with a hint of bourbon. I want it to be bourbon with a hint of maple syrup, which I think it absolutely is.
Ironclad Missouri Toasted Oak Cask
Joe Winger:
The maple syrup is so subtle, almost a tertiary flavor to it.
Moving on to the Missouri Toasted Oak Cask.
Owen King:
This is a double oak bourbon. With double oaking, what you’re going to do is exactly how it sounds.
You’re going to go from one new charred oak barrel. But instead of a second new charred oak barrel, we’re going to go to a lightly toasted barrel.
So my analogy for this is you’re sitting at a campfire and you’ve got a marshmallow. You’re roasting your marshmallow over the flame and it gets burnt. It catches on fire. So now you’ve got that roasted marshmallow where you’re still gonna eat it because it’s a roasted marshmallow.
So you eat it and it’s still sweet. But it’s got that sort of maybe a bitter acrid note just cause you burnt those sugars. You haven’t toasted them.
Now you take another marshmallow. You’re a little more patient this time. You’re going to stick it down in the coals and you’ll slowly rotate it until you’ve got that perfectly golden brown marshmallow.
When you taste it, it’s now twice as sweet because you just caramelize those sugars as opposed to burning them.
It’s the same with a charred oak barrel to a toasted oak barrel. With that charring of those oaks, you’re gonna you’re still gonna have that sweetness. We’re amplifying that sweetness with the toasting of the oak.
With this one you get those softer vanilla flavors like toasted marshmallow. You get a cookie dough flavor, maybe it’s raw cookie dough without the chocolate chips.
Joe Winger:
That’s amazing. mmIs there an extra bottle when I come down there, I’m in the tasting room, another good bottle we should ask for?
Owen King:
Another one that we have right now that is a very limited run. Very small release is our blueberry mead cask finish.
We give our barrels to a meadery in Williamsburg, Virginia and they make this blueberry honey mead. So now they have this bourbon barrel aged blueberry mead. And when they’re done with them, they give them back to us.
You’re not necessarily overwhelmed with [a] heavy blueberry flavor but it opens up to this really nice fruitiness and then like a fermented honey flavor on the front end.
It’s so unique, but it’s great neat on the rocks.
Joe Winger:
If we come down for the weekend, we visit the distillery in Newport News. What’s a tour like?
Owen King:
If people aren’t the biggest bourbon drinker, I want you to walk away saying, “Okay, I found something that is made with bourbon that I like.”
We are a distillery that only makes bourbon.
I want to make sure that everyone who comes here has something they can enjoy. This isn’t an uppity bourbon bar.
I want someone to come and be able to say, I’m not the biggest bourbon fan. What kind of cocktails do you have?” We always have a cocktail on every single menu that’s open for everyone.
Everyone’s going to love it and whether you’re a big bourbon fan or not. We just really want to be accommodating. We want to be a fun place for everyone to hang out.
We want to tell our story, the history of the Ironclad ships. Go through our distillery tour, we’ll show you that. If you want to know the history of Fredericksburg, or the history of What the bed and breakfast is we’ll tell you that.
Nothing pairs better with bourbon than a good story. And we really care about spreading that word.
Joe Winger:
Whether it’s a romantic getaway, a weekend getaway, why choose your bed and breakfast instead of a hotel?
Owen King:
While we’ve only had it a short time. But we’ve been adding things here and there. You’re going to get a fresh orange juice in the morning, made with the oranges that we used for our old fashions [last night].
We have our barrel aged maple syrup for your pancakes. So you’re going to have that maple syrup with a hint of bourbon.
Ironclad Inn
We really drive home that it’s a bed breakfast and bourbon experience. Get immersed in the bourbon culture. That’s our goal.
Joe Winger:
Any favorite bourbon and food pairings?
Owen King:
Bourbon’s wonderful for food pairings.
We’ve gone from pasta pairings to pizza pairings. Anything that’s fatty is a perfect pairing. Pork belly with a cherry reduction over top of it with one of our bourbons straight
We have this bourbon cream, Buzz’s Bourbon Cream, where it’s made with our small batch bourbon that’s infused with coffee beans, cacao nibs, and vanilla beans. That one over vanilla ice cream is perfection.
You’re adding a little booze, some coffee, a little bit of chocolate.
You take a bite and all of a sudden you had three scoops and it’s gone 30 seconds later.
Joe Winger:
What’s the best way to learn more about Ironclad Distillery and Ironclad Inn?
Owen King:
We have our website at ironcladdistillery.com. All of our social media Facebook and Instagram.
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Las Vegas Monorail Announces “Show Your Ticket and Save” Program
Las Vegas Monorail Announces “Show Your Ticket and Save” Program
The Las Vegas Monorail, one of the most convenient modes of transportation along the famous Las Vegas Strip, has announced the newest way to save on experiences in Las Vegas.
With its new promotion, “Show Your Ticket and Save,” guests who purchase a monorail pass will receive access to discounted tickets to attractions around the destination, including the High Roller, Papillon Helicopter Tours, FlyOver Vegas and more. As a zero-emission option, patrons capitalizing on this promotion can feel good about helping the environment and their wallets.
Current “Show Your Ticket and Save” participants include:
- Amina Spa, Balla Italian Soul, The Tangier and Prendi at SAHARA Las Vegas
- Awakening at Wynn Las Vegas
- Big Bus Las Vegas
- Cabinet of Curiosities Lounge, REAL Bodies and Dino Safari at Horseshoe Las Vegas
- Criss Angel Mindfreak and Miracle Mile Shops at Planet Hollywood Resort & Casino
- Discovering King Tut’s Tomb at Luxor Las Vegas
- Donny Osmond, Hyprov: Improv Under Hypnosis and Menopause the Musical at Harrah’s Las Vegas
- Eiffel Tower Experience at Paris Las Vegas
- Fantasy Lab at Fashion Show Las Vegas
- FlyOver Vegas
- GoCar Tours
- Grand Canal Shoppes at The Venetian Resort Las Vegas
- High Roller Observation Wheel and FlyLINQ Zipline at The LINQ Promenade
- Hunger Games: The Exhibition at MGM Grand
- KAMU Ultra Karaoke located inside Grand Canal Shoppes at The Venetian Resort Las Vegas
- Lip Smacking Foodie Tours
- The Magic of Jen Kramer, The International Bar and Sid’s Café at Westgate Las Vegas
- Marvel Avengers S.T.A.T.I.O.N. at Treasure Island Las Vegas
- Mat Franco: Magic Reinvented Nightly at The LINQ Hotel + Experience
- PanIQ Escape Room at The Venetian Resort Las Vegas
- Papillon Helicopter Tours
- Pink Adventure Tours
- Wayne: Up Close and Personal at Flamingo Las Vegas
More information about the “Show Your Ticket and Save” program and specific participant offers can be found here.
The Las Vegas Monorail features seven stops along the east side of the Las Vegas Strip and offers tourists and locals alike a convenient and economical option for transportation through the resort corridor.
As a 100 percent electric and zero-emission system, the Monorail helps to reduce emissions by more than 27 tons per year.
Ticket options include one-way fares and unlimited ride passes to suit any need, and tickets purchased through lvmonorail.com provide an additional discount. Standard hours of operation include Monday from 7 a.m. to 12 a.m., Tuesday through Thursday from 7 a.m. to 2 a.m. and Friday through Sunday from 7 a.m. to 3 a.m.
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Finding Love in Vegas: Dating Expert Andrea McGinty makes it easy with 33000Dates.com
Finding Love in Vegas: Dating Expert Andrea McGinty makes it easy with 33000Dates.com
We’re with Andrea McGinty, dating expert from 33000Dates.com
Dating Expert Andrea McGinty makes it easy with 33000Dates.com
Today’s conversation has been edited for length and clarity. For the full, un-edited conversation, visit our YouTube channel here.
So often we talk about food and wine and it’s usually for dates, romantic nights out, date night, anniversaries, vacations.
Dating Expert Andrea McGinty makes it easy with 33000Dates.com
Today we’re going to get to the source of what those date’s are actually about. So with us is a dating expert, Andrea McGinty from 33000dates.com.
Joe Winger:
So just to start things off, what inspired you to become a dating coach?
Andrea McGinty:
You mean what inspired an accounting / finance major to become a dating coach?
I started this when I was in my 20s. So this is the 1990s.
There’s no Google yet. There’s no online dating. It’s going to happen in the late 90s, but it hasn’t happened yet. At that point I was living in Chicago and I was getting married and five weeks before the wedding, he called it off and it was like – boom!
What do you do? First I cried, of course…
Anyway my friends started fixing me up on dates, still in your 20s and you know how those dates go,
They know someone that’s single, so they think you should like them, blah, blah, blah…
After some of those dates I was really thinking about it and I thought, it’d be great if there was a place you could go, like an executive recruiter for your professional life.
The same thing for your personal life.
And of course, there was nothing like that at the time. Even in high school and in college I fixed up two of my suitemates. They’re still with their husbands that I fixed them up with.
I was already good at this and I thought I could start this.
Anyway, fast forward.
I started a company in Chicago called It’s Just Lunch. Where people meet for lunch. We do all the work.
Fast forward, 15 years later, it’s still the same.
[At my first dating company, It’s Just Lunch] we had 110 locations globally and then I sold. Timing was perfect because online dating was coming out of its infancy and it was a mess it at first, just the scammers, the crazies, the horrible stories,
I thought, “Oh, wow, there’s a need. People have no idea what to do online and how to date.”
Dating Expert Andrea McGinty makes it easy with 33000Dates.com
Joe Winger:
Is there one big lesson to learn how to be more successful with dating in today’s world?
Andrea McGinty:
I think there’s a couple, there’s probably two lessons to learn.
#1 is you need to understand how to navigate online dating because there’s over 1400 sites out there.
#2 you’ve got to be really careful that you don’t give up too quickly.
Most people give up in the first 2-3 weeks because they go online, see a bunch of people, they probably went on the wrong site by the way too, like not the right site for them at all. Then they see these people who like them and they’re like, “Oh my gosh, this is online dating, forget it, I’m done, gone.”
And it goes back to they didn’t do it right, they had no idea what they were doing.
Joe Winger:
Can you bring some clarity to that and help somebody understand what are the first few steps are and how to do them correctly?
Andrea McGinty:
Absolutely. With online dating you need…
#1 you need to be really careful that you’re choosing the right site.
When we’re talking about 1,400 sites out there, I tend to work with the top 25 sites. When I’m working with a client I start initially with a zoom call with a client and get to know them what they’re looking for.
I work primarily with the 40 – something 50- something, through the 60s age group. Second time around, second acts in life type of thing.
Back to the right site…
When I’m choosing a site for a client after the zoom call, I’m thinking about. “Okay, what sites do I think they belong at?” And it’s very different if you’re in Los Angeles versus Houston versus Washington versus New York City or Orlando, Florida.
[The sites are] so different, how the sites function and the type of people that are even on the site.
I’m strategic too. I use three different large companies for research. I use Gallup, Pew and Statista. I pay to get research on a monthly basis and it really tells me the percentage of men to women on a site.
Some sites that are 80% men. Some sites are 80% women
You might be having an awful time on a site because you’re a woman and you’re at a site that’s 80% women. You’re in the wrong place.
So I do the homework with the research. Geographically where you live, level of education, income. Is that site’s membership increasing, decreasing?
#2 Your pictures.
Oh my gosh. I’m like a crazy person with photos because you have to have really great photos. I don’t mean LinkedIn photos, I don’t mean glamour shots, and not selfies.
The candids are nice because it’ll show you and your friends. Out playing pickleball, out playing tennis, out having drinks with your girlfriends. The professional shots. Depending on where you live, you’re just gonna get some great shots up against a graffiti wall in Brooklyn or a nice shot by the beach that are just a little more.
You want a couple full body shots.
You want the photos to be current, within the last year. Just like you don’t want to be surprised when you show up on the date and there she is. She has a few more wrinkles and a few more pounds than what I saw online.
It’s like you’re not being truthful about the whole thing.
Online dating is a visual medium. You’ve got to be presenting yourself. My LA and Orange County market, Dallas market, they get that. But there’s other parts of the country. I’m like no, we are not putting that picture of you online. There is absolutely no way.
#3 Your profile
Once they look at your photos online, if they like what they’re seeing, they’re going to read about you. It can’t be the same old stuff. Like I like to walk on the beach and I look as good in a tux as I do…. it puts me to sleep.
So a short, sweet, interesting, quirky profile sells.
A lot of times it’s hard to write about yourself. That’s why it’s nice to have somebody like me, write about you.
[Summarizing] You’re on the right site. The right photos. Your profile. Now it’s looking through high potential dates for you….
#4 Looking for High Potential Dates
Putting in algorithms, putting in search filters. That’s something I teach people how to do because otherwise it’s like you’re looking for a needle in a haystack and you want it like a needle in a little Easter basket.
Once we throw those filters and algorithms on, it gets rid of 80% of the people. Now we’re down to some of these people that look like high potential people for you.
#5 Send messages
We found 10 “someone” ‘s and now we send messages.
We don’t send them a weak heart or any of that kind of junk because men get so irritated. Because half my clients are men, they get so irritated with this.
Why are these women sending likes and hearts and no message?
That’s my constant battle with women.
Hey, you’re in your 40s, you’re not 90 when women had to wait to be pursued. We’re not living in our grandparents era, right? We’re equals. We can reach out to the men too.
The men totally appreciate when a woman sends a well crafted, interesting, short three sentence message.
The messaging is super important because you don’t want the: “Hi, how are you?” – or this is horrible. “Hi, you’re so good looking.” “Hi, you’re so beautiful.”
It was like, copy paste, they threw that out to the world, they sent that to everybody.
So now you’ve sent a message, hopefully he / she messages back.
#6 Schedule a date
The next thing is let’s get that date scheduled. This can all be done with just a couple texts on both people’s part:
“Okay, yeah, I’m totally interested. How’s Friday, at 5:30p at Bistro 110. Let’s meet for a glass of wine?
Because chemistry only takes place in real life.
Joe Winger:
In reality, do most dates get set up that quickly? It seems like there’s more delays and game-playing?
Andrea McGinty:
From the time you first send a message to someone, if the date has not been scheduled within five days of that initial text. There’s a 90% chance the date will never occur.
I’ll say to my client, “We’re going to go right for it right now.”
Write a couple of cute lines that are just for that person and then be like:
“You know what? I don’t really need to text you anymore or talk to you anymore because I’m ready to meet you. I’m super interested. How’s Friday night…?”
Sometimes you’ll get back a reply, what’s the rush?
I think to myself, what isn’t the rush here?
What do you want to talk about? Can’t you just get dressed?
We both live in Beverly Hills for goodness sakes. How long would it take us to get together and meet, right? We’re both in New York City. C’mon. Let’s do this in person.
If you’re getting those people that are drawing out the process, you either just cut bait. Just block them, goodbye, gone.
Or you say, you know what, if you don’t reply, you’re going to end up on my waiting list.
And you do it with a little humor, add an “LOL”
That can work too, where people crack up and they’re like, yes, I would love to meet you Saturday. Let’s grab lunch.
Joe Winger:
In today’s world of different levels of politically correct, cancel culture, different levels of sensitivity, regardless of whether you’re in a very conservative culture, progressive culture, etc.
How do we deal with any level of uncomfort when it comes to online dating?
Andrea McGinty:
First of all, you’re not in the workplace dating right now. Cause that’s where a lot of that happens, right?
This is where I say “Women, you’ve got a big advantage right now because you can feel very comfortable and free reaching out to men and get over that whole thing”.
Women wait to be pursued. There was this book that came out in the 90s: “The Rules.”
Wait to be pursued by the man and then don’t respond to him for three days. What the heck is that about?
No. Reach out to men.
Now for men, you’re not going to send stupid messages like, “Oh, you’re so gorgeous and sexy and blah, blah, blah”
Nobody wants that message.
You would find that offensive too.
As far as men reaching out to women, just do it in good taste.
Women are there to meet men. Creepy doesn’t happen very much online anymore. We’re out of that 2000 – 2010 era where more of that stuff happened.
There’s so many more hoops. Both parties jump through [hoops] on top notch dating sites now and dating apps now that verify that you are who you say you are and verify some information about you.
Joe Winger:
Most of the people watching this, they’re into food. That means fine dining. They’re into wine and cocktails and collecting wine.
What kind of a goal can they look for if they come to 33000Dates.com?
When they approach and connect with you, what should they be thinking about and preparing so they know how to best represent themselves in that first conversation with you?
Andrea McGinty:
Just be real with me and, people that are foodies and wine collectors, there’s a lot of us out there. There’s a lot of people out there that will find that very attractive.
There’s a lot of people that like to try different wine bars, they like to go up to Napa. Maybe that’s your third or fourth or eighth date,
Be real with what your interests are and… talking about food.
This goes back to when I’m writing your profile, when people just say, “Oh, I like Italian food.” I’m like no. Give me something here.
“I like carbonara with peppers and from Trattoria is amazing.”
It doesn’t have to be written in a snobby or snooty way, but it’s just like fun. Like you’re describing what you like to eat or your favorite foods or it could be talking about, you like this vintage of wine.
Be very specific with me because that’s how I can help you the most and be really upfront no, no PC woke stuff with me because this is your personal life.
Joe Winger
What are some realistic goals for your online dating experience?
Andrea McGinty:
We’ve got to make sure that we’re not listening to all the noise out there. We’re not listening to our negative friends about dating and friends and family can be two really negative forces because you get one of one of two things.
If it’s family, maybe a lot of them are married and they’re like, Oh, you’re good looking. You’re so awesome. You don’t need to do online dating. That is like for losers.
That is so not the story anymore.
You’ve got friends that are like, “Oh, I just tried Bumble. It was horrible”. “I did hinge. It was horrible.”
A lot of dating is going in with a good attitude. I’m not talking about rainbows and unicorns; and everything’s perfect or anything like that.
We spend a lot of our 20s and 30s becoming successful and working on our careers.
By the time we’re 40s, even 50s we’re there career-wise. So now, it’s time to focus on our love life.
That could be two very different pictures: it could be a second act because you’re divorced.
Or it could be you’ve been single and just all your efforts have been going into career and friends and travel and all this other stuff, good stuff you’ve got going on.
But you wake up one day and you’re like:
“Hey, I’m 45 and I’m single. What’s up with this?”
Go into online dating, approaching it the way you did your career. Strategically. It’s no fun to think about your love life, like strategically, hire somebody, think about how you play golf.
You didn’t just go out on the golf course. You took a bunch of lessons.
Everybody’s playing pickleball now. But you didn’t just go out on the court, even if you played tennis before. You took a couple clinics, right?
That very quickly threw you into the intermediate range all of a sudden because you put some effort into it.
Same with dating.
But if you want to do it effectively and pretty effortlessly, just like you did with golf, hire the pro to do this stuff for you.
My typical male client tells me I take 80% of the workload off him because he doesn’t have to think about it anymore.
I’m coming up and presenting ideas to him, presenting women to him and just getting them through. All of the hoops and the messaging and all that stuff. Getting them to the good dates because they’re out there.
There’s some markets, like Los Angeles and New York, that can be big complainers about dating. I think because they’re trying to do it on their own.
When I get online and go on the good sites in those two markets, there are so many good people on there.
It’s just a matter of having somebody doing a good portion of the work and pushing you.
And oh, here’s the other thing, accountability.
When you’re working with me, you have accountability because you’re going to talk to me next week. And I’m going to say:
“Okay, Tell me what happened to you last week.”
“How’d that date go?”
“Did you call back that other one that we talked about?“
I did text her after the date you said you were going to, what happened?
So that little push along the way and keeping you on track too.
Because we’re in a culture where, we’re educated, we’re taking great trips, we’re dining out. We’ve got a nice group of friends that we love to hang out with.
It can be really easy to sweep this all, to the wayside. There’s no reason because there’s a loneliness epidemic in the U.S. and we all know if you’re with somebody, that you really enjoy hanging out with you’re going to live longer and you’re gonna live happier too.
Right.
Joe Winger:
You’re offering great dating tips. Thank you.
Let’s say you’re someone who’s done the work on your protile, messaged all those people, asked for a date, and they’ve all disappeared.
What’s that person doing wrong?
Andrea McGinty:
You kinda gotta take responsibility for it. You’re doing something wrong.
Here’s the deal. You don’t know what you’re doing wrong.
But that’s stuff I can fix.
That’s another thing. You have to stay away from those free sites or sites that have free people on it because there’s no skin in the game there. They’re just dilly-dallying around, playing around on there and not really serious.
Part of it is recognizing the statistics that you’re going into up-front that for every 5 texts you send, 1 person is going to respond back.
I give my clients homework on a weekly basis, two sessions. That’s all I ask of them.
During those two 30 hour sessions they have to send out 8 messages. So I know by the time I’ve talked to them, they’re going to at least have gotten back 3 responses.
If their photos are really good, they might have 8 responses back.
If they haven’t already booked the date, craft the email, craft the text, craft the message that’s going to get that date in person. And get us there. Get us there.
Joe Winger:
Andrea McGinty from 33000Dates.com dating expert.
Any requests from the audience watching and listening?
Andrea McGinty:
I would just say, take a look around my site, maybe take the dating quiz that I have on the site. It’s fun. And it’s really fast. It’s 10 questions, and it goes right to me. It doesn’t go to any of my people. And. I can rate you and what you’re doing and tell you whether or not I can help you too.
So if you do take that quiz, give me as much info as you can. I don’t mean personal info, but like where you live, your age, but that’s all going to be on there. But take that quiz because that’s a good way to contact me and see if we might be a good fit and maybe I can help you if you really want to meet somebody.
